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Q03   Mixed bathing in sauna nude
Basic information of the survey
Mixed bathing in sauna as a teenager
No teenagers and adults together naked
With close relatives naked
Not naked in the company of close relatives
Naked in the company of acquaintances
Naked with a few specific acquaintanes only
Not naked with acquaintances
Not naked with strangers
Concern about sexual harassment
Experiences that have caused annoyance
Would not participate in mixed bathing in sauna
Can agree to mixed bathing in sauna, at least sometimes
Not naked even in the company of the same gender
Q03 Answers as a data table
The title of this question was: “What is your attitude to mixed bathing in sauna nude: would you participate, if someone asks?” The surveys were published on 6 – 7 august 2022. An exception is discussion A, which includes messages from a period of some 15 years, starting from year 2007. Answers have been taken into account until 13 august 2022.
These seven surveys were answered by total 83 men, 90 women, one trans-gendered, and 30 persons whose gender is not known. This report focuses on those answers only, whose writer’s gender is known with an adequate probability.
Nearly all respondents told their opinion, whether they would agree to participate in mixed bathing in sauna nude, if someone invites them to go to sauna in a group:
Would you go to a mixed sauna: W (89) M (83)
I would not participate 34 % 11 %
I might participate some time 66 % 89 %
89 % of men and 66 % of women said that they might agree to social mixed bathing in a sauna nude, at least in some cases, with some persons. Some of the respondents mentioned conditions and limitations, with whom they might agree, and with whom not in any case. This aspect will be studied more closely further on in this report.
These figures can perhaps feel surprisingly high. Is it true that up to 78 % of finnish adults would sometimes agree to social mixed nudity in a sauna? It is not known to me, in which way this group of respondents would differ from the finnish mainstream population generally. Some credibility is given to these statistics by a quite precise similarity with the answers of survey Q01:
Wish for the gender of doctor: W (98) M (16)
definitely of the same gender 27 % 13 %
According to survey Q01, 27 % of finnish women wish that a medical doctor performing an intimate examination is definitely a woman. According to survey Q03, 34 % of women would never agree to participate in mixed bathing in sauna with men nude.
In survey Q01, some 13 % of finnish men wish that a medical doctor doing an intimate examination is definitely a man. According to survey Q03, 11 % of men would never agree to participate in mixed bathing in sauna with women nude.
These figures are of the same order of magnitude, and the topic in both questions is a social situation, in which mixed nudity occurs in a small room among a few persons, who are not in a love relationship with each other. A similar order of magnitude gives credibility to these results. Maybe this statistical data is quite close to the truth.
However, finnish people are no friends of nudist beaches. Apparently fewer than 1 % of finnish people practise visiting a nudist beach. A sauna and a nudist beach are socially different places. Mixed bathing in sauna nude happens among a small group, and usually it is known quite precisely in advance, who will be coming there. A nudist beach has potentially much more people, of whom one will not know in advance, who they will be. Many nudist beaches have also such a reputation (both in Finland and in other countries) that the median age of people visiting there is high, and most of them are men, many of whom have a stereotypical inclination to casually stand or walk in the proximity of nude women, if such will be found at the swimming beach.
In the freely flowing discussions people introduced e.g. the following points of view, what they think about mixed bathing in sauna nude. This data table cannot be read in such a way that the percentages would mean, how many percent of people have which opinion about things. The discussers have either mentioned or left unmentioned, what they think about each topic. The actual percentages cannot be lower than is reported here, but they could be higher, and probably are too.
Opinions about mixed sauna: W (90) M (83)
assumes situation to be neutral > 7 % > 8 %
avoids assumed eroticness > 24 % > 13 %
approves assumed eroticness > 17 % > 39 %
feels or doesn’t feel “convenient” > 21 % > 14 %
worry about possible harassment > 2 % > 0 %
unpleasant experiences > 3 % > 0 %
Only 3 % of women mention some unpleasant experience, which has caused her annoyance in the context of mixed bathing in sauna. 2 % of women mention being worried about the possibility of sexual harassment in a mixed sauna. In these topics the figures of health care are much higher: 15 % of women and 18 % of men tell in survey Q01 about experiences of mixed nudity that caused annoyance, and 3 % of women say that they are worried about the possibility of sexual harassment during a visit to a male doctor.
41 % of women and 52 % of men mention that mixed bathing in sauna nude can be an experience of an erotic or sexual nature. 17 % of women and 39 % of men say this in a positive and approving sense. 24 % of women and 13 % of men say it in a reproaching sense, and possibly as a reason why the person does not want to ever participate in a mixed sauna.
7 % of women and 8 % of men say that they assume mixed bathing in sauna nude to be a completely neutral and nonsexual experience for everyone who is present. The remaining 52 % of women and 40 % of men do not mention in the discussion, whether nudity is neutral or erotic for them.
If we take into account as a sample those respondents only, who told their opinion, in that case 15 % of women and 13 % of men said nudity to be completely neutral. 85 % of women and 87 % of men pointed out that nudity is sometimes erotic.
Only those who told opinion: W (37) M (43)
feels that nudity is neutral 15 % 13 %
feels that nudity is erotic 85 % 87 %
Although nearly half of the respondents left unmentioned, what they think about the eroticness of nudity, statistically it is most probable that their opinions are distributed by the same ratio as with those discussers, who told their opinion. They might be distributed differently too, but the greater a deviation one assumes to these statistics, the less probable it is that the assumption would be the truth about the matter.
According to this estimation, some 14 % of finnish adults are of the opinion that mixed nudity in a social situation similar to bathing in sauna is fully neutral and nonsexual. The remaining 86 % of adults agree to admit, at least in an anonymous discussion, that also sexual sensations can be involved in social nudity. Majority of them approve the matter, and would agree to mixed bathing in sauna in spite of (or indeed because of) the fact that erotic sensations can occur during it.
Can any other statistics be found, with which we could compare this result, in order to assess how credible this estimation seems to be? Research Q02 has discussions of nudists about nudity, but they do not represent a neutral sample of the whole population. Nudism practiced at beaches is a hobby of a small minority, some 14 % of the population in Britain, and apparently less than 1 % of the population in Finland.
In survey Q09, which concerns the eroticness of a woman’s and a man’s clothing, the respondents probably represent quite well the ordinary mainstream population in western countries. In the two cases that received highest scores, AA and AB, 87 % of men gave quite high points for eroticness (6 – 10 points, on a scale 0 – 10) to scantily dressed women, who were not even nude or topless, but the posture of the body may have been such that draws erotic attention. The remaining 13 % of men deemed these cases to be quite neutral, which were voted as the most erotic ones, giving 0 – 5 points only.
An estimation in survey Q09, which contains some uncertainty, assumes that 86 % of men would probably have given at least 8 points for eroticness to fully nude women, and the remaining 14 % of men would have given 0 – 7 points.
Based on these points of reference, it seems that the statistics presented afore about the attitude of finnish men toward the eroticness of nudity seem to be quite realistic. Figures that remarkably differ from this information would be surprising, or even unexplicable.
Some statistical unclarity is caused by the subjective interpretation of each respondent, what is meant with “neutral” or “erotic”. (How many points, on a scale 0 – 10?) The story D 175 sheds light on this problem with particular clarity:
“There has never been anything sexual in it. … Or well, one must admit that I have checked out the places of others indeed, but I have not gotten a stander.”
Many discussers use such an expression that “there is nothing sexual” in nudity, or “there was nothing amazing about it”. It seems to vary, what each discusser means with such an expression. The writer of comment D 175 seems to use such criteria that if a man does not get an erection, then we can say that “there was nothing sexual in it”. Many other discussers describe as “sexual in nature” also such situations and sensations involving nudity, in which the man has not gotten an erection.
Thus the discussers use somewhat different criteria for what is “neutral” and what is “sexual”. In some cases the expressions that emphasize the neutrality of mixed nudity seem to mean “let us not nitpick about such small things” rather than “my thoughts were completely puritanistic all the time”.
Based on the information that is presented here, what would be the statistical probability in a social situation that involves mixed nudity, that at least one of the men who are present looks at the nude bodies of the women with sexual interest? Approximately 87 %, if one man is present. 98.8 %, if two men are present. 99.8 %, if three men are present. 99.97 %, if four men are present.
What about women’s erotic interest toward the nude bodies of men? This is a very different story, as we can note in survey Q09B. Narrative C 144 sums up the sensations of one woman who practises mixed bathing in sauna, in a way that might be an apt description of the mindset of even most women (although not all women):
“Men now will run shirtless anyway at times. That nude body [in sauna] is not any sexier or more interesting than that for me.”
The result of survey Q09B is precisely such: women gave the highest scores for eroticness to shirtless men. Men in clothing scantier than this received much lower points from women. Women gave practically indeed minus points to men for it, if they were too scantily dressed at the lower body.
How many points would women have given for eroticness to fully nude men, if such photos had been presented in survey Q09B? Assumedly less than to shirtless men. Assumedly according to the words of writer C 144: “That nude body is not any sexier or more interesting than that [shirtless man] for me.”
In the two cases that received highest scores in survey Q09B (GA and GB), only 36 % of women gave quite high points for eroticness (6 – 10 points, on a scale 0 – 10) to the upper bodies of stylish men. The remaining 64 % of women deemed these cases, which were voted as the most erotic ones, to be quite neutral, giving 0 – 5 points. And these were cases that received the highest scores from women. Other bodies of men interested women even less. Women were not nearly as greatly enthusiastic about men’s bodies as men were enthusiastic about women’s bodies.
Based on this information, it seems realistic to estimate that approximately two thirds of women (64 %) might feel a man’s nude body to be quite neutral, in the circumstances of social mixed nudity. So much interesting as a man can be without shirt, but not much more than that. This would mean that only 36 % of women feel nude men to be sexually arousing in a social context.
However, many more women than this said in the survey concerning mixed bathing in sauna, that mixed nudity occurring in sauna can be sexual of its nature. Outright 85 % of the women who told their opinion about the eroticness of nudity. What is the cause for a difference so great as this, if one statistics says 36 %, and the other says 85 %?
This difference is quite apparently caused by the aspect that only few women in the survey about mixed bathing in sauna commented the question, whether nude men are erotic to watch in their opinion. Majority of women commented the situation from a different point of view, that men probably look at the bodies of women with an erotic attitude. The figure 85 % does not tell, how many women feel men’s nude bodies to be erotic in a mixed sauna. It rather tells, how many women assume men to feel that women’s nudity is erotic.
For some people, a positive or a negative attitude toward mixed bathing in sauna is not moral in its nature, but is rather based on their perception of the attractiveness of their own body. A woman who practises mixed bathing in sauna points out in story C 145 that “one dares carry this body”. Some persons, who stay away from mixed saunas, say instead in the style of writer C 134 that “I am not fully in terms with my body”. Some 15 % of all argumentations, which the discussers give as the reason why they don’t want to participate in mixed bathing in sauna, refer to the person’s perception of the poor attractiveness of one’s own body.
The most common argument mentioned by people (some 54 %), why they do not want to participate in mixed bathing in sauna, is some moral aspect related to the sexual nature of mixed nudity. Writer C 142 explains the matter this way: “I want to maintain a certain privacy, and it has nothing to do with me not being in terms with my body.” Other comments in a similar direction are e.g. “for me it is sexual and cheating” (D 166), “I am a severe hetero” (A 81), “my nude body is for my spouse’s eyes only ... I am a muslim” (C 136), “inappropriate for someone in a love relationship” (C 107), and “we have agreed in the relationship that we will not go to sauna nude with the opposite gender” (D 238).
The second most common argument (some 31 %), why people do not want to participate in mixed bathing in sauna, is that mixed nudity “does not feel convenient”. Such an expression is possible to understand in many different ways. People are not used to spending much time nude, so this is indeed the default expectation through classical conditioning, if it does not feel convenient.
Participants in the discussions have very different and contradicting opinions about with whom mixed bathing in sauna is convenient, and with whom it would be particularly embarrassing or morally reproachable. The logical incoherence of these opinions seems to be largely due to the fact that some people assess mixed sauna as a situation that is sexual in its tone, and others think it to be a neutral and nonsexual situation. This point of view probably explains to a great extent, with whom mixed bathing in sauna is deemed to be acceptable and convenient.
With whom you’d go to sauna: W (90) M (83)
teenagers and adults together > 1 % > 4 %
no teenagers with adults > 1 % > 2 %
among close relatives > 4 % > 6 %
not among close relatives > 7 % > 1 %
among acquaintances > 13 % > 13 %
with some specific friends only > 9 % > 0 %
not with anyone whom you know > 3 % > 1 %
with unknown persons > 8 % > 7 %
not with unknown persons > 2 % > 2 %
A small share of the discussers ponder such a point of view that mixed bathing in sauna is not appropriate for teenagers together with adults. These respondents assess mixed sauna as an erotic situation, and they have a reproaching stance toward a sexually toned atmosphere between teenagers and adults. (So does legislation too, without taking a stance on mixed bathing in sauna specifically, however.)
4 % of women and 6 % of men tell that they willingly go to mixed sauna with close relatives, such as mother, father or adult siblings. Some of these respondents think that a close family relation forms a specific psychological barrier for it that the situation could have a sexual tone of any kind. On the other hand, 7 % of women and 1 % of men mention being of exactly the opposite opinion, that mixed bathing in sauna would be particularly embarrassing with close relatives, because one does not want to have anything to do with them in an atmosphere that is erotic in tone.
13 % of both women and men mention going willingly to mixed sauna with their own circle of acquaintances. (The actual figure is probably much higher, because people typically go to sauna indeed with their own circle of acquaintances.) On the other hand, 3 % of women and 1 % of men say that mixed nudity would be particularly embarrassing with anyone whom they know, but they would approve mixed nudity somewhere far from everything, in the company of total strangers.
9 % of women and one trans man say that they go to mixed sauna with a few specific acquaintances only (to whom they apparently don’t have a romantic connection), but they would not go to mixed sauna with anyone else. In these cases the people in question are usually childhood friends or other particularly trusted friends.
Basic information of the survey
This report takes into account all comments that are relevant for the topic under scrutiny in the seven below-mentioned discussions at internet forums. Each message begins with letter A – G, which refers to the forum and discussion, in which that comment was written.
A, published 6 august 2022:
https://www.potku.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23461-miten-suhtaudut-sekasaunomiseen-osallistuisitko-jos-joku-pyyt%C3%A4%C3%A4
The administration moved this message to be part of another discussion that started in 2007, whose all com-ments have been taken into account as part of discussion A:
https://www.potku.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7344-sekasauna
B, published 6 august 2022:
https://kalastus.com/keskustelu/keskusteluja-kalastuksen-ulkopuolelta/miten-suhtaudut-sekasaunomiseen-osallistuisitko-jos
C, published 6 august 2022:
http://forum.hevostalli.net/read.php?f=9&i=8793372&t=8793372
D, published 7 august 2022:
https://www.vauva.fi/keskustelu/4757983/miten-suhtaudut-sekasaunomiseen-osallistuisitko-jos-joku-pyytaa
E, published 6 august 2022:
https://keskustelu.kaksplus.fi/threads/miten-suhtaudut-sekasaunomiseen-osallistuisitko-jos-joku-pyytaeae.2633121/
F, published 6 august 2022. No appropriate answers. (“19 messages that violated the rules have been removed from the discussion.”)
https://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/t/17520981/miten-suhtaudut-sekasaunomiseen-osallistuisitko-jos-joku-pyytaa
G, published 6 august 2022:
https://ylilauta.org/aihevapaa/130662534
Wording of the question was: “Some finnish people practise mixed bathing in sauna, men and women nude together. Most people do not practise this. // If some group of acquaintances, or from the workplace or hobby, invited you to mixed sauna, would you participate? Why yes, or why not? // It would be good if you mention your gender too.”
This question included such a claim that “most people do not practise this”. Based on the answers it seems possible that the given information was not true after all, but this has probably not affected the results of the survey significantly.
Mixed bathing in sauna as a teenager
[B 8 M] In the sauna one goes naked. … There are grandmas and grandpas together with the daughter-in-law and son-in-law candidates and the bigger children. … Young parents, who have very little children, go with them. Nudity is no taboo, and no sexual connection is attached to it as such.
[B 10 ?] One would think that for someone in puberty a mixed sauna would be a dread.
[B 11 ?] [In reply to message B 10:] It is not a dread for everyone to exhibit a semi-erection.
[Administration of the forum removed the comment B 11 later on, apparently because it refers to underage persons in a sexual tone.]
[A 36 W] I got my first experience of the matter (with others than the family) … as a 14-summer-old. One wouldn’t really dare go there in the sauna with a swimsuit on. … As a scoutgirl one has gotten to continue that culture in a quite easygoing manner. … On the other hand, that mixed bathing in sauna has been a bit contrived in those student-drunkard crowds, I wonder if it even was real mixed sauna bathing.
[A 50 M] In the scout circles mixed sauna is a common convention. Usually the thing is implemented so that first women’s and men’s shifts separately, and then at last an open mixed sauna for those who have wanted. … And yes it did make me blush a bit when younger, when naked girls got crammed right next to you, but the matter was alleviated by having (or actually not having, in the sauna) eyeglasses, and without them one didn’t see hardly anything.
[A 56 M] Mixed saunas are nice, like this from a teen boy’s point of view ;). … They have become familiar through Prometheus [coming-of-age] camps [for atheist youth].
[A 88 M] We do mixed bathing in sauna in our family just without worries, with my woman and her teen children. One is a girl and the other is a boy. … In the summer theater we go to mixed sauna. I throw from the hat that some 20-40 percent there do mixed bathing in sauna nude.
[D 163 M] As a young student I participated, as the student saunas were always mixed saunas. It was nice enough, and there were never any problems, no erections accidentally nor intentionally. Not even though I remember well, how a couple of specific freshman girls of the production economy indeed intentionally raised their knees bent up on the sauna benches. Well, alcohol may have had a role in the matter. … But I would lie if I claimed that it wasn’t quite pleasant to glance from the eyecorner also in the nude the student mates, whom one saw daily with clothes on. // As such I had gotten used to mixed sauna already when younger. … The family is predominantly rather female, and one couldn’t put me, often the only small boy, alone in the sauna either. It seems that no one saw a need to change the convention, when I gained more age either. Now then it has been more quiet, what comes to mixed saunas, for the last 30 years … neither would the wife go to mixed saunas either.
[D 170 M] I have never seen anything so lovely, than when as a teenager at a friend in a sauna evening, two really hot girls had the courage to join among us boys. … Thankfully I had that much alcohol in blood that it didn’t start standing.
[A 191 M] For the first time, right after childhood one got to visit a mixed sauna at the Prometheus camp. … The girls were much better in terms with nudity than the boys of the camp. We had swimwear, the girls not. … Only now, as one has gained more age, I have again found myself from a mixed sauna, and only now I dare be naked in a liberated way.
No teenagers and adults together naked
[B 1 M] I have participated. Although when the 13-year-old girls of the extended family came into the sauna, well that felt so much deranged that I departed from the sauna.
[A 24 M] [In reply to message A 21:] Yeah quite much the same here. Some time as a 12-year-old I no longer went to sauna with mother. … I do go with the preteen sisters, but not with older ones then.
[A 38 W] In Finland one has gotten to visit mixed saunas, though not terribly often. In a familiar group, with the friends or with a student crowd. At home we did mixed bathing in sauna when I was small, but not after early puberty.
With close relatives naked
[A 82 W] I have done mixed bathing in sauna. Perfectly norm, in my opinion. Though it can affect this that I went to sauna with my parents for quite long, with father too, and there was nothing very amazing in it, in my opinion.
[D 241 W] Yes I have participated in a mixed sauna some time, in the friend groups of the spouse, it included men and women. I have not happened to notice anything strange, or any insinuations or starings. Now everyone has eyes in the head for sure, but there was no erotic tension in it. … I am also deviant I guess, as I still go to sauna with my parents in adulthood, the mother and father that is.
[D 242 W] Some time I may happen to go at the son’s party with his friends [and maybe her own son too] in mixed sauna. Lovely cougaring.
[D 243 M] [In reply to message D 229:] Well written. I recognize as my own. The presence of children gives a very specially temperate, but even the more bursted erotic finesse to mixed sauna, as with us some time in the hindyears with the wife, when the children were small. Along in the sauna was also a man who was our guest, with whom the wife had sex later at night. It is very rare in these discussions that any adult would admit feeling erotic interest toward persons under 18 years of age, who are naked in their company. The story D 243 is a rare exception, as well as B 1 in a negatively reacting manner. There are no biological reasons for such a limitation of erotic interest at exactly 18 years of age. Such reasons would occur rather during the first than the last years of puberty, closer to the age 12 years than 18 years.
Administrators of forums would probably censor with a low tolerance erotic comments that concern persons under 18 years of age, so we cannot know whether such comments have been written or not. People may have practised also self-censorship, leaving something such unwritten, which they assume to lead to reprehension or banning.
The purpose of this report is to give an uncensored and truthful general perception of all points of view and sensations, which are related to mixed bathing in sauna nude. It is realistic to assume that the narratives of these people are a slightly censored version of reality, what comes to erotic feelings whose target is persons under 18 years of age. In research R02, which concerns nudism, there are some stories that describe sexual sensations toward teenagers. Administration of the website quora.com, which was used in that research, has an exceptionally tolerant policy toward keeping such information on display.
Many narratives mention that most notably a male person has deemed mixed nudity to be a more strongly erotic experience at a younger age or in teenage than at older age. Based on this we can assume that fewer teenage boys feel social mixed nudity to be neutral and nonsexual than the 13 % of adult men. Probably less than 5 %.
In stories concerning mixed nudity, the people who assess the situation as somewhat sexual in tone, typically mention that the family stopped going to sauna together when the children reached teenage, for example at the age 10 or 12 years. The reason for such an age limit is not clarified, does it concern the child’s body starting to develop into something sexually provocative for adults, or about the child beginning to regard the nudity of adults as erotic.
At which age do children develop a strong erotic reaction to the nude bodies of the opposite gender? In survey Q51 adults were asked for recollections from their own childhood, regarding this matter. The average of the answers was 10 years for boys, and 12 years for girls. The narratives concerning mixed bathing in sauna use similar age limits, but these people may not be aware that these are averages, not lower limits. 24 % of men say in survey Q51 that they reacted in a strongly erotic way to the nudity of also adult women already since the age of 6 years. The sample was 21 respondents, who were from different countries.
Feeling mixed nudity to be strongly erotic is not limited to boys only, even though it is statistically more common among boys. Research Q52 includes the narrative of an english woman about washing oneself on the men’s side of an indoor swimpool at the age of 12 years, wearing a swimsuit, while the boys and men were naked. She was aroused with a dramatic magnitude of everything what she saw, and masturbated later that evening to the memory of that situation.
Legislation decrees heavy punishments to such activity, in which an adult strives to cause sexual feelings in a teenage person, or an adult seeks sexual feelings for oneself through the nudity of teenage persons. Some kind of an ideological exception is done with mixed bathing in sauna, and it is considered legal if adults organize mixed bathing in sauna naked with teenagers. (These discussions mention gatherings of the extended family, scout activities or Prometheus camps as the most common situations, in which the respondents have participated in a mixed sauna as teenagers with adults naked.)
Is mixed bathing in sauna among teenagers and adults activity that is sexual in nature? Perhaps not as a physical act, because no erotic touching of the body is usually involved in the situation. As a psychological experience it is though, with such a statistical probability, which has been estimated in this report separately for adults and for teenagers.
The probability for it that at least one teenage boy in a mixed sauna experiences it as erotic, as he sees the nudity of the women who are present, is apparently around 95 % if there is only one teenage boy in the mixed sauna. 99.8 % if there are two teenage boys in the mixed sauna, and 99.99 % if there are three teenage boys in the mixed sauna.
When adults seek to enter circumstances of nudity with teenagers anywhere else than in a sauna, it is deemed to be harmful and severely punishable. But if it happens in a sauna, the “benefit of doubt” is applied in favour of the aspect that the situation is not necessarily sexual in its psychological nature. Only with some 99.8 % probability, if there are two teenage boys in the company of naked adult women, or if there are three adult men in the company of naked teenage girls.
At the beginning of this report it was pointed out that 85 % of the women and 87 % of the men, who participated in these discussions, are of the opinion that mixed bathing in sauna is often a situation that is erotic i.e. sexual in its nature. Those who reminisce about their own teenage (especially the men) emphasize that in teenage it was an even more strongly erotic situation than nowadays. It remains unclear, how a way of thinking that admits the sexual nature of mixed bathing in sauna fits moral-philosophically and legally together with the reality that mixed bathing in sauna is approved between adults and teenagers. When one considers that any interaction between these two age groups, which is sexual in its tone, is otherwise criminalized in the society at the threat of a severe punishment, and one of the arguments for this is the social power balance in favour of the adult, which is the case also in the circumstances that concern mixed bathing in sauna. Both what comes to gatherings of the extended family, scout activities, as well as Prometheus camps.
Not naked in the company of close relatives
[A 42 W] Differently in different circles. When going to sauna among the original home family, somewhat as a peculiarity, we all like to go separately alone, enjoying the sauna with one’s own shift.
[A 47 M] There is no problem in a mixed sauna session naked in a group of friends or with strangers, but e.g. with the future father-in-law one would not necessarily fancy going.
[A 52 W] It is so that one had to go mixed bathing in sauna right on the third night of the journey of studies, when it turned out on site that there were no shifts based on gender. For a moment we pondered with a fellow sojourner, whether one would dare. … As with many others in this thread, also with me has remained since teenage the habit on of going to sauna alone, when visiting the childhood home.
[A 69 M] This I have never understood, how one cannot go to sauna naked with one’s own family members. I have a 2 yr older sister, and the parents of course, and we have always bathed together in sauna. … One friend was totally in shock, when I said that I go to sauna with mom, and he asked then further that “you mean naked?” Then it turned out that it was not normal among the other friends either, they say. … Mainly in a student group one has gotten to do mixed bathing in sauna nude. … Myself I am of the opinion that I would be embarrassed, if I were in sauna with my male friend and his girlfriend. I don’t know why, I guess I somehow mirror it to myself, so I don’t want that my friends would look at my own girlfriend naked. … I don’t mind being in a mixed sauna nude with the girlfriend of an unknown man.
[A 71 W] I will not go to a mixed sauna naked, it just does not feel so nice and relaxed. … At home I did go to sauna together with the parents and the older brother, but e.g. when the families of acquaintances or relatives have been visiting, there are usually always women and men separately, or then each family separately.
[C 108 W] With friend groups I do mixed bathing in sauna always naked, and so it has been always. It feels convenient. … However, if we are with the close ones e.g. at the cottage, then I will not go to sauna with my brother or my mother and her husband, we rather go in our own groups. It would feel weird to go mixed, for some reason.
[C 127 W] Yes I do bathe in [mixed] sauna. … If some time rarely there is a commenter of the features of others in the group, then that one has been disciplined quickly indeed. … For myself the limit goes at this that I do go to sauna with my own husband, but for example with father, father-in-law, sister’s husband or male cousins I don’t. Approximately ten years of age is also a limit, so that I will not go in the same sauna with boy children older than that.
[C 129- ?] [In reply to message C 127:] But this only reveals that mixed bathing in sauna naked is connected with something sexual at least subconsciously, because going to sauna feels strange with such representatives of the opposite gender, who are not potential sex partners even at the level of theory.
[C 149 W] I go to sauna indeed rather in a mixed sauna. … On the other hand, with the childhood family one doesn’t hardly happen to go to sauna, neither do I feel myself so pleasant anyway to bathe in sauna with them naked, for some reason, be it then a sister, a brother or the parents.
[C 155- ?] This explains well indeed [the sexualness of the situation] the interest of certain kind of people to bathe in sauna with their children.
[D 169 W] Since child [there is] no getting used to mixed sauna at all. It is not convenient then as an adult either. With my husband between the two of us, or then in a group of girls/women. … I would not dare go even with my mother or sister.
[D 173 W] I could go naked with the friends, at least with such that I know a bit better. With work colleagues or relatives I would not go. Although also in the work circles I have become acquainted with a couple of such familiar men, whom I regard as good friends. With them I could go.
Naked in the company of acquaintances
[B 6 ?] If the people are familiar, then quite ok.
[C 92 W] With [my] other worker group I would bathe in sauna indeed.
[C 153 W] Naked in a mixed group, some small and close group ok. … I would like to be more in terms with being naked, and particularly topless, but it feels awkward for some reason if there is a larger group, or if we go in a large garden bathtub.
[G 177 W] With familiar ones yes. In a worker group definitely not. I want to keep the work and the private life (to which my nude body also belongs) separate.
Naked with a few specific acquaintanes only
[C 100 T] [trans man] I bathe in sauna with a few friends only, otherwise only alone. These are men, but I would not mind if there were a woman too.
[C 139 W] As a younger single, mixed sauna was quite ok. I no longer bathe in sauna except with my mother or sisters, my living partner, or my best friends (a man and a woman). I don’t want to display my body to all acquaintances, no matter in how good terms I am with it. All panoramas do not belong to everyone.
Not naked with acquaintances
[C 132 W] I would never go to sauna with a work or hobby group. Despite that, I once bathed in mixed sauna naked at my sister’s cottage housewarming party some 10 years ago, and it was a quite good experience, because the rest of the gang were unknown to me (except my sister and her husband).
[C 154 W] I don‘t want to be naked with work colleagues etc. acquaintances, so I will skip. If I were seeking erotic tension, I would go to a mixed sauna to look at men. So don’t imagine that everyone are there with innocent minds. // It’s not wrong.
Not naked with strangers
[A 17 W] It depends on the crowd really, all of them must be familiar. With strangers it might perhaps be a bit awkward.
Concern about sexual harassment
[C 146 W] To a mixed sauna with the swimsuit on only. … The sexual aspect is funny in such a way that I am bi, but I would still feel myself uncomfortable in the company of the male gender only. It might be connected to it that as a young [athletically] trained woman, one still becomes the target of sexual harassment occasionally, and these harassers are always men. That sauna will not magically convert one’s thoughts platonic.
[G 180 W] With friends and their spouses yes, and I have bathed in sauna indeed. Similarly with the friends of one’s own spouse I can go. … With work colleague men not, because most of them are swines, and I know that there would be looks of the so-called wrong kind coming, namely every female body would become the target of assessment afterwards, possibly also harassed at work. Neither with family members, because it would feel weird at an adult age (maybe mother and sisters as an exception). I know couples (both hetero and gay couples), in which mixed bathing in sauna is forbidden. Myself I don’t understand this, because nudity and sexuality are two completely different things for me.
Experiences that have caused annoyance
[A 37 M] The first case, which also corroded most efficiently in mind, was a class excursion at the sixth of lower elementary school. … I strutted in naked, like into a sauna at least now, and my shock was immense, when … our class, both genders, were represented in the sauna of course, with the swimming gear on naturally. … In its entirety this must belong to the most traumatizing experiences of my childhood. … Nowadays there wouldn’t be a terrible threshold for going to sauna, as one is quite well in terms with oneself and one’s own body, unlike e.g. at the time when that described class excursion episode happened.
[This has not been counted into the statistics as a negative experience related to mixed bathing in sauna, because mixed bathing in sauna naked was not the intention in this story, but rather an unintended accident.]
[C 118 W] Even though they say that there is no sexuality involved, well the shapes do get measured there for sure. I experienced this some time when younger, when the male partner of the time forced me to go to sauna with a group of friends. … I heard how in the hours of the morning side of night the drunken men compared the shapes of the female sauna-goers. I felt nauseating. I have not done mixed bathing in sauna since then.
[There are some nudists and mixed bathers in sauna, who approve the activity only because they have a naive and statistically unrealistic perception of how rare sexually toned looks and thoughts are in such circumstances. (But there are probably many more of those, who understand these realities and approve them: for example the narrator of the next story C 148.) Other parties can usually keep the pokerface carefully, when people are naked, but this female person accidentally overheard a discussion that was not meant for her to hear. It broke the illusion of a nonsexual reality, which had never existed at all.]
[C 148 W] With one group of friends we do mixed bathing in sauna nude, it has been the habit for many years already. With others not, and I doubt that there will be new crowds in future either, in which I would do mixed bathing in sauna. Once a man of this group of friends commented my body, and it was precisely the last time that I went to sauna with him. Someone will certainly glance or look, but for me it is enough if one won’t do it so that I would notice, nor will say anything.
[D 161 ?] I will not participate any more. I got a dread, when a familiar couple imagined that we will now get into swinging of partners. Before that I bathed in a mixed sauna every now and then, and I didn’t realize that someone there would glance in a sex sense too.
[D 244 W] Mixed bathing in sauna was fully ok for me earlier on, but for a few years I have no longer agreed to a mixed sauna. Men’s behaviour as the reason. It belongs to the etiquette of sauna that one will not glance at the others in a sex sense, nor will one assess the bodies of others. Not even in a positive tone. When after nearly every time started coming some comment … then I have no longer agreed to a mixed sauna. ‘You have a very beautiful body / a perfect rear / very beautiful breasts.’ Yeah no thanks. As a reserved woman, from a married man it is not any nicer to hear such comments than [it would be] when single either. Let the guys bathe in sauna among themselves.
Would not participate in mixed bathing in sauna
[B 2 M] Of course not [mixed bathing in sauna for me]. Sauna is a place for calming down, and listening to women’s babble doesn’t suit there.
[B 5 M] Mixed saunas in a semi-erection don’t belong to the finnish forest tribe culture. With one’s own missus one can bathe, then the screwdriver will stay in church condition.
[A 21 M] So I have never been to a mixed sauna, neither have I heard that they would be very common. … Nor would I even go. For me a woman’s nudity is not natural, but rather there is always sexual colouredness in it. … Surely I could practice to have a neutral attitude to certain women … but with completely unknown women this would be more troublesome.
[A 25 M] I have not visited. … The thought does not fascinate, however. One would probably get an uneasy feeling. And I am rather shy too.
[A 30 W] I don’t believe that I could be naked in a mixed sauna in any situation. … I understand though that it is perfectly normal for others. I have never been fully in terms with my nudity (particularly yet some years ago, now the situation is a bit different, when the teenage is past).
[A 51 M] I have been many times when younger, but I was not in need [of sex] then. Nowadays as one lives nearly in a celibate, I wouldn’t dare any more, one would start desiring sex anyway.
[A 53 M] Mixed saunas are nice as a single. … (When reserved, I will not show myself naked except to my reserver, and vice versa.) Mostly one has gone to sauna with the friends [as a single]. … Girls sit on the laps of boys, and beer and liquor on the stove! // … Nowadays I have not practised mixed bathing in sauna, nor will I practise it probably. Somehow it just isn’t my thing, it is not convenient. (Wife is lurking behind my back when writing this.)
[A 57 W] I will not do mixed bathing in sauna, otherwise than with my hubby. That doesn’t count I guess.
[A 76- M] Myself I have never collided with a mixed sauna. It’s probably because of my age [under 18 years], but anyway.
[This answer was left out of the statistics, because the writer does not clarify, whether he would agree to a mixed sauna or not.]
[A 81 M] I will not do mixed bathing in sauna, for the reason that I don’t like bathing in sauna, and I am also a severe hetero.
[C 91 W] I wouldn’t [do mixed bathing in sauna]. The argumentation is that I just don’t want to, because it would be weird in my opinion.
[C 95 W] I would not go, because I wouldn’t want to go. Such a thing has never been even suggested though, but rather the women and the men separately.
[C 96 ?] I do mixed bathing in sauna, but not naked of course.
[C 97 W] I wouldn’t go to a mixed sauna naked. I would feel myself very uneasy, it just isn’t my thing. Earlier on I didn’t go to a mixed sauna even in swimsuit, nowadays I do. Why should one go naked?
[C 99 W] When about twenty, one was enthusiastically along with a swimsuit (or by the end of the evening also without), at work and in leisure. … But 30+ one doesn’t have the energy any more, and bathing in sauna is generally a bit like is it obligatory now? … Somehow one’s own limits become stronger along age, and such things are more among the family.
[C 101 W] With the swimsuit on we do mixed bathing in sauna among the whole extended family, but never naked. I don’t like to bathe in sauna naked except among one’s own family, which is the man and the small children.
[C 102 W] I wouldn’t participate. I don’t reproach mixed bathing in sauna, and it would be ok for me if my husband bathed in a mixed sauna. Myself I am just that much reserved, that I don’t want to bathe in sauna otherwise than with the husband and a few female friends.
[C 106 W] When young, under thirty, one got to do mixed bathing in sauna some time, but since then it hasn’t even come to mind.
[C 107 W] I don’t bathe in sauna naked nor with a swimsuit, except with my own husband. With others it would be unnatural, disgusting and possibly sexually toned, thus inappropriate for one who is in a love relationship.
[C 109 W] Sometimes one must manage through a sauna trip with the other women. Preferably I go alone. But what is the fun in it to go to a mixed sauna? It is just somehow factitious. … And silly rubbish, as if nobody in the crowd would think about anything that refers to sex. I don’t trust unknown mixed bathers in sauna quite that much.
[C 111 M] We have always gone with the swimsuit on. Once we were bathing in sauna with the couples of the friends, and the hubby of a certain woman started to complain that why reserved ones need to wear swimming gear? We said that he can be naked if he wants, it won’t bother. For some reason he didn’t want.
[C 114 W] With the hobby group I bathe in sauna, the others are men, and I myself the only woman of the crowd. … I don’t mind even though they are naked, although I wear a swimsuit myself.
[C 115 W] These foreverly explainers, that no sexuality is connected with bathing in sauna. … When younger, we did mixed bathing in sauna naked, and sexuality was involved in the matter to quite some extent. After reaching 35 years of age, I have no longer agreed to it. And now at the mature age of fifty, I definitely will not go.
[C 120 W] I do mixed bathing in sauna, but only if one has a swimsuit or a towel as cover. … It would feel uncomfortable to be naked, for the reason that … [C 118] told there above [that men assess women’s bodies].
[C 121 ?] I would participate, but in swimwear. For me it is one and the same whether the others are naked or not, but myself I don’t want to be.
[C 124 W] I would not participate, neither have I ever bathed in a mixed sauna, nor do I know anyone who would have.
[C 125 ?] Totally silly nonsense these “I am a woman and I conveniently do mixed bathing in sauna naked”. Both men and women watch the forms and equipment through, this should be perfectly clear. Who claims otherwise is naive, stupid, or is lying.
[C 128 W] I am a woman, and I can go to a mixed sauna in swimsuit, never naked. … I have never been naked in a mixed sauna, but some friends practised this when younger, when one is liberated from body anxiety at around twenty years. And according to what I have heard, definitely also sexual vibes are involved in it. That’s why young adults usually practise this.
[C 130 ?] It is quite natural that people look, and that is why they visit mixed sauna naked. But if one doesn’t want to practise voyeurism at others, or doesn’t want to be the target of voyeurism, then it is quite ok to not participate. Myself I don’t want to show myself naked to just anyone, not even at the level of glancing. As it is, I don’t reveal everything about myself otherwise either, except to the very closest people.
[C 133 W] I wouldn’t participate. I cannot see any sense in that mixed bathing in sauna. … For me bathing in sauna is a ritual, in which I calm down by lying on the sauna benches. I don’t long for any company then. … At most with the sisters I can bathe in sauna commonly at the cottage, every now and then.
[C 134 W] I don’t participate in mixed sauna. I am not fully in terms with my body, and I don’t want that others see my tender places. Also otherwise I bathe in sauna more preferably alone or with by husband, because I like to bathe in sauna in peace and quiet.
[C 136 W] Not naked, because my nude body is for the eyes of my husband only. With the swimsuit on, it is swinging swaying whether I would go, maybe not. And this purely because I am a muslim.
[C 140 W] Naked I will not bathe in sauna except alone or with the very closest female friends. … I can do mixed bathing in sauna though, but with the swimsuit on.
[C 141 ?] With swimwear I might perhaps, but I don’t like.
[C 142 W] Here it got summarized already, that the function of mixed bathing in sauna is indeed to get to practise voyeurism at the equipment of others “with permission”. Myself I don’t want to see the equipment of my work colleagues, neither that they will see me naked. I want to maintain a certain privacy, and it has nothing to do with me not being in terms with my body.
[C 143- ?] [In reply to message C 142:] Quite understandable I guess, that you are not able to see others naked without trying to rape them.
[These discussions remained generally matter-of-fact, and it was rare that anyone would comment the opinions of others in a quarrel-seeking tone.]
[C 151 W] In swimwear I can do mixed bathing in sauna, but I am so insecure about my body. … If I have not shaven for a moment, then I will rather pass even with a swimsuit. And we are talking about truly abundant hairiness, maybe even hirsutism.
[C 152 ?] With swimwear on I can go to a mixed sauna.
[C 157 W] I don’t do mixed bathing in sauna, and also otherwise I like to bathe in sauna alone and to relax in my own thoughts.
[D 165 ?] Having read similar threads from here, I would certainly not participate. Someone/some just will watch genitals there indeed, without focusing on the bathing in sauna. I don’t understand why one should go with others there in the sauna with the balls swaying. … Why should one take those swimpants off? So that we could stalk and compare?
[D 166 ?] In my opinion it is sexual, and cheating. Whether I will participate, that is a different thing then. No, I like my life this way.
[D 221 ?] I would not participate. That much low self-esteem regarding one’s own body.
[D 223 M, 247 W] I am a man, so there is no problem in visiting mixed saunas. My wife on the other hand would never go to sauna naked, if there are also unfamiliar men.
[D 236 ?] Mixed bathing in sauna was quite exciting 30 years ago at student parties. Since then I became an adult and got settled.
[D 238 M] I actively visit a public sauna, which is a mixed sauna, and in which people are with the swimwear on. … One cannot turn one’s sexuality off, and at times one happens to glance at another female sauna-goer subconsciously and instinctively in the style “how beautiful that one is”, but that is where it remains. … It is completely possible that some female sauna-goer has done something similar to me. … I wouldn’t participate, provided that nudity is involved in the situation, for we have agreed in the relationship that we don’t go bathing in sauna naked with the opposite gender.
Can agree to mixed bathing in sauna, at least sometimes
[B 3 M] Always been going, and I will go too. Student of a technological university from the 90’s … back then it was just norm business.
[B 4 M] Most of the men stayed bathing in sauna still after men’s shift had ended [and a mixed shift started], and indeed there were female comers to the sauna, majority of the women who participated in the student days.
[B 7 ?] Always when I visit Germany.
[B 9 M] My attitude toward mixed bathing in sauna is based on the healthy curiosity of a hetero man.
[A 12 M] A couple of times gotten to be in a mixed sauna.
[A 13 M] In student circles mixed sauna is a quite normal phenomenon. At least with us.
[A 14 M] The most traditional format seems to be, that first a women’s sauna shift, then mixed sauna. … There is a charm of its own in it of course, although a sexual situation is not in question in my opinion either.
[A 15 M] I have been numerous times. … Quite nice, but a bit awkward.
[A 16 W] One has gotten to be bathing in sauna with a familiar and also a bit less familiar crowd.
[A 18 M] When younger, at 18-21 years of age that is, it was just a weekendly norm fun. Something else [erotics] was perhaps involved in it too then, than the mere joy of bathing in sauna.
[A 19 M] I don’t deem it strange in any way. … I must admit though that the first time when I was in a mixed sauna, it felt a bit weird at first. I was in sauna with a certain friend of mine (a woman) and her boyfriend. // … What the heck does it matter? Besides, someone can actually glance at the rear in a sauna that has one gender only, but this doesn’t seem to bother anyone now.
[A 20 M] [In reply to message A 14:] So according to my experiences too.
[A 22 W] We went to the graduation party of the husband’s sister some years ago. … They have a mixed sauna. I thought that it’s only a joke. But it was there indeed, we were at the cottage. The reason for this seemed to be that nearly all of them had known each other since childhood, so nothing sexual had ever developed between them at any point.
[This narrative contains an unfounded conclusion: if people have known each other since childhood, it does not form an obstacle to sexual feelings between them.]
[A 23 ?] I go to mixed sauna every year.
[A 26 M] I have visited. Not more amazing like that.
[A 27 M] The previous mixed bathing in sauna was just during men’s sauna shift in a common sauna. An exchange student woman had lost her way to the wrong sauna shift I guess.
[A 28 M] Oral sex has transpired once, and once a semi-familiar girl places her external birthgiving organs as a target of closer observation, but otherwise I have felt mixed bathing to be just turning the heat on, right where any other methods.
[A 29 M] Quite overrated in my own opinion. … There was nothing sexual in it. Hasn’t been so far at least, but that thing can break free from the glove I guess.
[A 31 M] One doesn’t really bother to do mixed bathing in sauna any more. When studying, one happened to do that sometimes. Confusing was the habit of some girls to sit on the sauna benches with the knees bent up, and heels on the bench. If the door of the sauna was towards the benches, one didn’t really know where to put one’s eyes when entering.
[This story has been interpreted in the statistics as the option “would agree to participate”, as the decision to completely quit mixed bathing in sauna does not seem absolute.]
[A 32 M] [In reply to message A 31:] Isn’t this a self-evident thing now, where one’s sight will settle, ha.
[A 33 W] So a mixed sauna in its various forms is quite ok too as such, but I greatly shun the tit exhibition started by girls, which is surprisingly common in these drunkard saunas. The towels falling “accidentally”, bending over with your butt up, and who knows what. Maybe it’s nice for males, but myself I have a too big ego for such events.
[A 34 M] Few in the close circle have been much timid with their nudity, so it’s a surprise for me to hear that so many don’t go to a mixed sauna.
[A 35 M] In the theater quite an OK thing, so we are in a mixed sauna always when possible. … Of the same theater we are anyway.
[A 39 W] Mixed bathing in sauna has never bothered me any worse.
[A 40 M] Mixed bathing in sauna can be very relaxed indeed, authentic sauna-going, such similar bare joy of being. … Sexual perceptioning does exist, but under control.
[A 41 W] I am one of those few women in our hobby group, so it’s nicer to go to sauna with men.
[A 43 M] In my opinion I am quite naturally there indeed, my own nudity is not a very amazing thing for myself, and sauna is not a place whose atmosphere would cause any such itches in me, that the nudity of maidens would be stimulating. Or well, it has actually happened too sometimes.
[A 44 M] As the nightly activity of a certain wedding, no swimwear, no towels.
[A 45 M] Mixed bathing in sauna is quite familiar, both in the circle of friends and also in the student goings.
[A 46 ?] Mostly with the crowd of friends. Neither has one felt oneself uneasy in any way in a familiar crowd. Somehow I have just learned into it, that sauna is not a place with a very erotic tuning, people focus rather on that bathing there. … The matter can naturally be helped by the fact that as the eyesight is what it is, and one doesn’t really bother to wear eyeglasses in sauna. … So voyeurism doesn’t really succeed either.
[A 48 M] A familiar thing. … There is nothing evil in that.
[A 49 M] With the friends I have been to mixed sauna, also at some camps there has been a mixed sauna, or I mean a women’s shift and then a common shift.
[A 54 W] I have been, and I still go nowadays too, effortlessly. I don’t bother to be tense about meaningless things.
[A 59 M] When younger, one has perhaps happened to glance at breasts, but nowadays the gender of the sauna friend does not matter that much.
[A 61 M] One has gotten to experience mixed saunas as quite natural things, nor has anyone been tense about such in my circle of friends. But one thing I say indeed: contact lenses improved my quality of life remarkably, what comes to mixed saunas ;).
[A 64 M] We are even quite often in mixed sauna with a group of friends, in the dress of nature. There is nothing amazing in it.
[A 65 M] One has happened to do mixed bathing in sauna several times.
[A 66 M] Mixed sauna is usually a bad alternative, because few women enjoy really fiery heats. // It is not away from me, if someone wants to be broad-minded, modern, beautiful and brave, and like that half-secretly glance at unfamiliar rears. But only when nobody will notice.
[A 67 W] I will go to sauna indeed, in a familiar and also a less familiar crowd.
[A 68 M] One has happened to do mixed bathing in sauna. … When travelling the world, one sees many kinds of a weird convention in sauna, and then one won’t feel like going there.
[A 70 M] One has gotten to bathe in sauna with an acquaintance couple and their friend. … There was nothing amazing in it. … The student groups have been that much bashful so far, that the shifts have always been separate. … In a larger crowd one would certainly have an uneasier feeling, especially if there were girls in whom one were interested.
[A 72 M] They do mainly mixed bathing in sauna in the groups of friends, and [in groups] of students too.
[A 73 M] In my own circle of friends mixed sauna is the custom of the land. … Mixed sauna is not in any way automatically erotic in my opinion (except if it’s specifically initialized to be such of course, but that’s a different thing then).
[A 74 M] Mixed sauna with young women in a suitably dimly lit smoke sauna is perhaps the best that a sauna can offer to a human.
[A 75 M] [In reply to message A 74:] The man is at the core of the matter.
[A 77 M] They do mixed bathing in sauna a lot in my circle of friends. Usually women are offered an opportunity to bathe in sauna separately, but mostly we end up in a mixed sauna.
[A 78 M] If we are in a group and the sauna is heating, then let it be just mixed. If some pervert happens to be among, so let that one sit on the sauna stove for a quarter.
[A 79 W] Well how do men take the matter … is a woman allowed to do mixed bathing in sauna? I have wrenched about this with two men, with the former and the current [partner]. Neither of them got really enthusiastic about the thought that I go to a mixed sauna. But won’t deem it evil of course, if there are other women while they are in sauna.
[Many variations occur in these discussions, what kind of a stance couples take toward mixed bathing in sauna. Some have agreed with their partner that neither of them goes to a mixed sauna ever. Others have agreed that both of them can go, together or separately. In a few cases the woman does not want to go in a mixed sauna, but she approves it if the man goes. There are such stories too, in which one party practises mixed bathing in sauna despite resistance by the partner, and the matter remains quarrelsome.
Cases A 79 and D 224 mention men who forbid the wife or ladyfriend from going to mixed saunas, but the man sees it as his right to practise it himself. Forbidding the matter from the spouse indicates that the man interprets mixed bathing in sauna to be a situation that is sexual in nature. Both of these stories leave such an impression that the women observe these rules of the game that have been unilaterally dictated to them, without presenting such a condition that the woman stays away from mixed saunas only if also the man stays away from them. The balance of power seems to be in favour of the man in these love relationships. There can be many possible reasons: these men might be wealthy, or these women might be psychologically of the kind that submits easily.
A man in narrative A 69, who has practised mixed bathing in sauna a lot, ponders theoretically that “I don’t want that my friends would watch my girlfriend naked”. It does not become evident in the story, whether he is in a love relationship, and whether they have some rule concerning mixed sauna.]
[A 80 M] [In reply to message A 79:] Of course it depends on with whom [my woman] bathes in sauna, and whether I know them. … At a sauna evening of the combat club there might be more testosterone in the air, neither will one necessarily get a chance to “guard” that female of yours. … Don’t mix morality or reason into this.
[A 83 M] I have practised mixed bathing in sauna both with a student and a work crowd, and in the name of anything I would not deem it as my right to forbid my spouse from doing the same.
[A 85 M] In student circles then the basic model seemed to be women’s sauna first, and then mixed sauna. … I or my wife can do mixed bathing in sauna also alone, if one feels like that. The sauna evenings of the karate club always go with separate sauna shifts. I don’t know why, but somehow it is maybe better in my opinion, that different genders who regularly train together bathe in sauna separately anyway.
[A 86 M] For the causes of work or hobbies one has gotten to practise bathing in sauna with women.
[C 89 W] I have done mixed bathing since child, and I still do.
[C 90 W] I participate very conveniently, in any crowd.
[C 94 M] Most people practise such. Sauna is not a sexual place, but rather a place where people wash themselves. People don’t go to the shower with a crowd.
[C 103 M] With a small crowd we bathe in sauna at the cottage. … We have practised this since the high school times, when we got an idea back then to go to the cottage to drink booze in peace. Back then there was a sexual tone in the task, and there might have been some sex later in the evening. Now the task is just natural and honest being there.
[C 104 W] I can go, most easily e.g. with friends or a group of acquaintances. Strangers would be ok. A work crowd perhaps more unpleasant, but it would just depend on the crowd.
[C 105 W] I do mixed bathing in sauna quite conveniently. I don’t feel shower or bathing in sauna to be intimate at all.
[C 110 W] I have bathed in sauna, and will bathe in future too.
[C 112 ?] A couple of times I have drifted into a mixed sauna … but I don’t feel a nude mixed sauna to be a convenient washing place in any way. … If I bathe in sauna, I bathe for the sake of the company.
[C 113 W] When younger, I have been in a mixed sauna naked. Very often there was a sexual nuance in it, or much more too. As a single it tasted. In my current love relationship we have agreed that we’ll go in a mixed sauna only if both are present, but such situations have not arrived. I doubt that we would go even if there were a chance. In fact we have been naked in a garden bathtub with my female friend. The presence of my husband didn’t bother her. With a work crowd I wouldn’t go to a mixed sauna in the name of anything. Already now I get too much attention in the male-dominant sector, and I don’t want that my body will be analyzed later on.
[This narrative has been interpreted in the statistics as the option “might participate in mixed bathing in sauna”, because the decision not to participate does not seem to be absolute.]
[C 116 W] Is completely ok. With a hobby group every now and then. … Surely my husband is allowed, and he does the same indeed.
[C 117 W] I do mixed bathing in sauna only with good friends or complete strangers (and then only if there is some friend along). So in the situations of the opening, I would skip. … Even on the level of thought I don’t feel it as nice to be naked with others than the aforementioned groups. “Sex bathings” in sauna then between two. // Even if you … despite looking [were able] to behave appropriately, that doesn’t mean that one should suffer with others too from staring, groping etc.
[C 119 W] As a student I did mixed bathing in sauna in whichever crowd each time. … Myself I would maybe not want to bathe in sauna with a work crowd, because I cannot be sure that someone from the crowd wouldn’t feel bathing in sauna as somehow sexual anyway.
[C 122 W] I can bathe in sauna naked in any crowd really. As a teen and a young adult there was such a period that I didn’t go to mixed sauna. One probably was somehow more anxious about one’s body then, and on the other hand a young woman’s body is often the target of sexual looks. Nowadays I don’t bother to suspect that anyone would be interested in my old sausages in that sense. … On the other hand, I am fiercely on their side too, who don’t want to do mixed bathing in sauna, and I am always irritated by such situations in which bathing in sauna gets foisted (a bit like liquor too).
[C 123 W] I do mixed bathing in sauna naked.
[C 126 ?] I have done mixed bathing in sauna, even often too. I don’t feel anything in it that would direct toward sexuality. It is just bathing in sauna, there is no unsolicited touching of anyone, nor staring of the body.
[C 135 W] I could go even in the market square naked, to be ogled on by people. I am in terms with my body, and I don’t feel nudity to be an amazing thing in any way. With a group of friends or workers we always do mixed bathing in sauna.
[C 138 W] In the group of friends we have always bathed in sauna mixed and nude.
[C 144 W] I have done mixed bathing in sauna since a child, naked. … Nudity is a quite normal thing for myself. … I don’t peep at anyone precisely indeed, not intentionally anyway. … Men now will run shirtless anyway at times. That nude body [in sauna] is not any sexier or more interesting than that for me.
[C 145 W] I bathe in sauna naked without depending on the crowd. Familiar ones, strangers, foremen, relatives, which way ever. … And if someone happens to look with that mind, let one be glancing there then. One dares carry this body. Myself I am fortunately so blind that I cannot discern a bucket from a scoop without glasses.
[C 147 W] If for some reason I bathed in sauna with reserved men, whose wives are inside in the cottage, I would put … a swimsuit though, but more probably I would skip going.
[C 150 W] I am a woman to my knowledge, and mixed sauna is not a problem.
[C 156 W] I can go in a specific situation and group. The same applies to women’s sauna too, I don’t bathe in sauna with anywhere near all women either.
[C 158 W] Have participated, and still will go. Now not in the work crowd though, as I am the only woman of the place.
[C 159 W] I do mixed bathing in crowds of friends and hobbies. … In some way I agree with it however that sauna … might be also a sexually toned place, depending on the person. For this reason I myself never bathe in sauna with the work crowd, for example, for I feel that it would not be appropriate for the boss to go naked in the same space with the subordinates. … About that staring at equipments and bodies: … one doesn’t stare at others much in our mixed saunas, as 80% of the group of friends have eyeglasses, and we are all quite half-blind when we leave the specs / contacts away before sauna.
[C 160 W] I have always done mixed bathing in sauna, as a teen too. … I found a crowd that didn’t oversexualize everything always and all the time.
[D 162- ?] [In reply to message D 161:] Sorry to hear that you get anxious, as an oversensitive one (maybe?), from quite normal being with people.
[D 164 ?] Depends on the askers. If mixed bathing in sauna is the thing for them that they are waiting for with the tongue long, then I probably won’t participate.
[D 167 ?] At us people always bathe in a mixed sauna.
[D 168 M] I definitely participate. I am not bothered by the nudity of myself or others, and if someone talks dirty things or exhibits herself so that it starts standing for me, then I will not cover it up either.
[D 171 ?] I have participated may times. Particularly when younger it was quite normal, that a crowd of friends or a crowd of students bathed in mixed saunas right naked. A few times I even got lucky.
[D 172 M] In the mixed sauna, which I have been to, there was nothing sexually toned, but rather just and quite ordinary visiting the sauna among men and women. … No voyeurism, and nothing else either.
[D 174 M] Like this as a single man, I would surely participate.
[D 175 M] I have been many times … and there has never been anything sexual in it. Not either when I was along in the jogging sauna of the spouse’s work crowd, as the only man with ten women, and alcohol had been consumed. Or well, one must admit that I have checked out the places of others indeed, but I have not gotten a stander, nor seen either. // Women’s bodies are surely nice to look at, but bathing in sauna and friends are a different thing than sex. And in my opinion one must also be able to separate them, so that a naked woman won’t cause a stander and lust in every situation.
[G 178 M] I could participate. Feels a bit exciting whether my penis would stand. … It wouldn’t be very bad, because men have the right to emotions, including being aroused by naked women.
[G 179 ?] Quite normal to go to mixed sauna with a group of friends.
[G 181 M] In a mixed sauna of the work crowd I would take … my [large] penis in the open, and observe how the eyes of the fat AV women start to glitter.
[D 215 M] That surprising stander can easily surprise one though, particularly if with ten women in the sauna, one would have to think about polar bears there indeed.
[D 216 ?] For me it is one and the same, if there is Eric or why not Lisa too in the sauna, when I wash my rear.
[D 217 W] I have never declined an invitation to mixed sauna. … I have often been the only woman on the sauna benches. I don’t mind it either, even if I will be looked at there. I do that myself too, of course.
[D 218 ?] I have never been, but I definitely would go. I would probably glance a bit, out of my curiosity, although there is nothing sexual involved in bathing in sauna.
[D 219 ?] I don’t bathe naked in a mixed sauna, except at Sompasauna [which is my regular place to go].
[D 220 M] In student circles it practically functions so that there is a women’s shift and a mixed shift. … It’s not a problem for me, but for a shy boy it can be difficult to say, if one would like to have a gendered shift.
[D 222 M] Some ten years ago at a certain bachelorette party I got into sauna with the bride-to-be. Until there started coming women in, each more charming than the other. … I started to have difficulties, and I had to concentrate for real not to get an erection. More recently as my mindset has developed, I would allow to stand freely. As there is nothing to be ashamed of in the matter.
[D 224 W] We do mixed bathing in sauna all the time, at us at home and at the cottage. … I am often the only female mixed bather in sauna. The husbands of other women don’t allow their women to a mixed sauna. … I get suggestions every time … from male friends. Adult men know how to offer their delicacy, and nowadays I definitely don’t resist the temptation [to have sex with unfamiliar men], but rather I enjoy life. The women [of other men] chat at the terrace … with my husband, giggle, while their own husbands “wash my back” in the sauna.
[D 225 M] I have always participated, when there is an opportunity. There is not much sexual about bathing in sauna, but because I possess a large penis at rest … so it is nice to exhibit it for sure, and look at the reactions, both from women and from men too.
[D 226 M] A couple invited me to their cottage to continue discussions. Soon the sauna was heating already, and we sat on the sauna benches among the three of us. There surely was something strange in it, weird, which perplexed. Next time the man brought it up, by saying that his wife had an affection of this kind, or did he say that a passion. That if it doesn’t bother me, it doesn’t bother them either, and it’s a pure joy for his wife from such being together. And so we continued the meetings, the bathings in sauna.
[D 227 ?] [In reply to message D 226:] A senselessly hot experience. Think how they have gotten arousements from you, and the wife has gloated over a young stallion. … Precisely that submission, the moment of getting undressed in front of a stranger in a mixed sauna, the best ever.
[D 228 W] I guess I have such a tiny weeny enticement to exhibitionism of some kind, or at least I feel some excitement a bit, when I know that others are looking. Going to a mixed sauna is always a bit thrilling, already that getting undressed there, as I know that some man is glancing, even if I didn’t see it. I intentionally allow a bit to be seen, and I enjoy it at some level. Sometimes I indeed get aroused on the sauna benches in secret. My husband knows this side of me … and sex after that is always a bit more passionate.
[D 229 ?] I behave correctly, neither do I glance around. I don’t assume the sight of others to stray in the wrong direction either. One cannot help it though that one happens to see from the eyecorner. There is such discreet and controlled eroticism of an adult human in it, yes, which involves also it indeed that everyone pretends to be as if there were nothing strange in the situation. They even claim that there is nothing erotic in nudity. Well of course there is, but one must master the code of behaviour. It is out of the question that people would check out the bodies of others, chat inappropriate things, or that it would start standing for anyone. Such would be embarrassing and egregious.
[D 230 W] I do participate.
[D 231 W] Earlier on I was absolutely negative, but now as my husband has openly told that he goes to mixed saunas, so I guess that I will also go to such in future, in my own social evenings. What should one spare oneself for the spouse’s eyes, if I am not the only one either that my husband looks at.
[D 232 ?] [In reply to message D 231:] Precisely so and good, the same rules for both. Female beauty will not get worn out by looking indeed, and you will certainly get into many a wank bank with your nudeness. The initiative has come from your husband, so let it burn.
[“Wank bank” is a term that sometimes comes up in discussions concerning mixed nudity. It means remembrances of people who have been seen naked some time, and whose naked body may sometimes be reminisced about during masturbation or sex. Ths topic is encountered in a few surveys concerning masturbation in this work. Such a perception is formed in survey Q05, based on people’s narratives, that the remembrance of a person’s nude body can remain usable as a stimulus for masturbation for hours, days, months, or in some cases even years.]
[D 233 W] [In reply to message D 231:] And think, what kinds of [men’s] equipments your own eyes can see in these social evenings. You own hubby can soon be of the shrimp department. One has experience.
[D 234 M] Of course I will go. My valiantly upright standing … penis will draw everyone’s attention.
[D 235 ?] In Finland people bathe in sauna by default … men among themselves or women among themselves. If it is claimed that a mixed sauna is quite normal, one is lying consciously. Mixed sauna is expressly a sexually coloured event. And I don’t say at all that it would be a bad habit.
[D 237 M] I don’t see mixed bathing in sauna as erotic in any way, so why wouldn’t I participate. I have participated too, several times.
[D 245 W] I am often the only woman in a mixed sauna, and I take men’s positive looks as a compliment. And yes, there is some erotic charge in them, but that is always involved in the nudity of adults though. I don’t overthink the matter, but rather I enjoy life. I surely like also myself to look at trained men on the sauna benches, it functions both ways. And as a reserved person I am in and depart from the heats.
[D 246 W] Men and women are equal, both of them equally naked and vulnerable to the glances of others. I have never encountered staring, and a lingering look that admires beauty is not that yet. Of course I am in terms with my body, although far from the measures of misses.
Not naked even in the company of the same gender
[A 58 W] At a friend’s bachelorette party some fifteen young women. … And the whole crowd bathed in sauna self-evidently with the swimsuit on. … Console me … by telling that your friend crowds of least the same gender bathe in sauna clotheless?
[A 60 M] Well also we do bathe in sauna with the swimwear on, in a friend crowd of the same gender too. On the other hand, e.g. with my own family it wouldn’t come into my mind to go in sauna with the swimpants on. Intriguing.
[A 62 M] I have been, among acquaintances and strangers. … Although when younger, when I was a sophomore at the coming-of-age camp of the church, I noticed such a thing that the campers don’t dare go in the sauna naked, I mean even with representatives of the same gender.
[A 63 M] Yesterday I was at the training session there at the local indoor swimpool [in Scotland]. … I went in the actual men’s changing room there, threw the textiles away, and trudged into the shower. … From behind the corner dashed some employee of the indoor pool: “Oh, sir, sir! You’re not supposed to go around like that!”
[A 84 M] [In reply to message A 19:] It does bother. With the pseudonym “to such an uncle … given a careful beating”.
[A 87 M] I have been several times when younger. … As it is, there is no sex in the sauna, I guess, in my opinion anyway. … American colleagues (all of them men) visited Finland some weeks ago. … When the time came then, as one had to go in the sauna and take the clothes off, the yankees were really astonished that surely not all clothes? They didn’t agree to come naked.
[C 93 W] In swimsuit I could bathe in sauna, but not nude. I don’t like to bathe in sauna even with all women. For me bathing in sauna and washing oneself are intimate situations in that way, that I go in sauna to relax.
[C 98- ?] Shower is not a sexual place either in my opinion, but I still don’t want to visit a shower with a crowd, except for necessity of the circumstances e.g. at the indoor swimpool. … I don’t understand it that some go to sauna to spend time for the fun of it.
[Answer C 98 was left out of the statistics, because it is not clearly mentioned, what the person approves and what not.]
[C 131 W] In women’s company I am ashamed of my body. In men’s company it feels disgusting, as I know some uncle men to look at me with that eye even with the clothes on (they have told it themselves). … I wouldn’t go to a mixed sauna for the reason that I’m not fully in terms with my own body. Bathing in sauna doesn’t enthuse with familiar women either, because I often get comments about my body with the clothes on too, so I don’t have energy for that goodheavensing. So I have large muscles from a bodybuilding hobby, and nonexistent breast gear, if anyone was left wondering now.
[C 137 ?] I will not participate. I don’t feel myself comfortable nude or in scarce clothes with hardly anyone.
Q03 Answers as a data table
Columns in these data tables: 
NP   will not participate in mixed bathing in sauna nude
WP   would participate in mixed bathing in sauna nude

NT   does not approve teenagers together with adults
AT   approves teenagers together with adults

NR   does not approve among close relatives
AR   approves among close relatives

NF   does not approve among friends and acquaintances
SF   approves with a few specific friends only
AF   approves among friends and acquaintances

NS   does not approve among unknown strangers
AS   approves among unknown strangers

RE   has had an experience that caused resentment
CO   feel or does not feel “convenient”
EE   assumes situation as erotic and wants to evade it
AE   approves it that the situation might be erotic
NE   assumes the situation to be surely fully neutral
Answers of trans-gendered (1) 
 id NP  WP  NT  AT  NR  AR  NF  SF  AF  NS  AS  RE  CO  EE  AE  NE

100      T                           T       T
Answers of men (83) 
 id NP  WP  NT  AT  NR  AR  NF  SF  AF  NS  AS  RE  CO  EE  AE  NE

  1      M   M                                           M
  2  M
  3      M                                           M
  4      M                                           M
  5  M                                                   M
  8      M       M       M       M       M                       M
  9      M                                                   M
 12      M
 13      M                                           M
 14      M                                                   M
 15      M                                           M
 18      M                       M
 19      M                                           M       M
 20      M
 21  M                           M   M                   M
 24  M       M                                           M
 25  M                                               M
 26      M
 27      M
 28      M                                                   M
 29      M                                                       M
 31      M                                               M
 32      M                                                   M
 34      M       M       M       M       M
 35      M
 37      M
 40      M                                                   M
 43      M                                                   M   M
 44      M
 45      M
 47      M           M           M       M
 48      M
 49      M                       M
 50      M                                               M
 51  M                                                   M
 53      M                       M       M               M   M
 56      M                                                   M
 59      M                                                   M
 60      M               M
 61      M                                           M       M
 62      M                       M       M           M
 64      M                                           M
 65      M
 66      M                                                   M
 68      M
 69      M               M   M           M               M
 70      M                       M                   M
 72      M
 73      M                                                   M
 74      M                                                   M
 75      M                                                   M
 77      M
 78      M
 80      M                       M                       M   M
 81  M                                                   M
 83      M
 85      M
 86      M                                           M
 87      M                                                       M
 88      M       M       M       M
 94      M                                                       M
103      M                                           M       M
111  M
163      M                                                   M
168      M                                                   M
170      M                                                   M
172      M                                                       M
174      M                                                   M
175      M                                                   M
178      M                                                   M
181      M                                                   M
191      M
215      M                                                   M
220      M
222      M                                                   M
223      M
225      M                                                   M
226      M                                                   M
234      M                                                   M
237      M                                                       M
238  M                                                       M
239      M                                                   M
243      M                                                   M
Answers of women (90) 
 id NP  WP  NT  AT  NR  AR  NF  SF  AF  NS  AS  RE  CO  EE  AE  NE

 16      W
 17      W                       W   W               W
 22      W                       W                               W
 30  W                                               W
 33      W                                               W
 36      W       W
 38      W                       W
 39      W
 41      W                       W
 42      W           W
 52      W           W                                           W
 54      W
 57  W
 67      W                       W       W           W       W
 71      W               W   W       W       W       W
 79      W
 82      W               W                           W
 89      W
 90      W
 91  W                                               W
 92      W
 93  W
 95  W                                               W
 97  W                                               W
 99      W
101  W
102  W
104      W                       W       W
105      W                                           W           W
106  W
107  W                                               W   W
108      W           W           W                   W
109  W                                               W   W
110      W
113      W                                               W
114  W
115  W                                                   W
116      W
117      W                               W   W       W   W
118  W                                           W       W
119      W                                               W       W
120  W                                                   W
122      W
123      W
124  W
127      W   W       W           W       W
128  W                                                   W
131  W                                                   W
132      W                   W           W
133  W                                               W
134  W                                               W   W
135      W                       W
136  W                                                   W
138      W
139      W                                   W
140  W
142  W                                                   W
144      W                                           W           W
145      W               W       W       W                   W
146  W                                                   W
147      W                                               W   W
148      W                                   W   W           W
149      W           W           W
150      W
151  W                                               W
152  W
153      W                                   W       W
154      W                   W           W                   W
156      W
157  W
158      W                                               W
159      W                       W                       W   W
160      W
169  W                                               W   W
173      W                                   W
176      W                                                   W
177      W                                   W           W
180      W           W                       W           W
217      W                                                   W
224      W                                                   W
228                                                          W
230      W
231      W                                                   W
233      W                                                   W
241      W               W                           W           W
242      W                                                   W
244  W                                           W       W
245      W                                                   W
246      W                                                   W
247  W
Respondents whose gender is not known (30) 
 id NP  WP  NT  AT  NR  AR  NF  SF  AF  NS  AS  RE  CO  EE  AE  NE

  6      ?       ?       ?       ?
  7      ?
 10      ?   ?
 11      ?                                                   ?
 23      ?
 46      ?                       ?                           ?
 96  ?
112      ?                                           ?
121  ?
125      ?                                                   ?
126      ?                                                       ?
130  ?                                               ?       ?
137  ?                                               ?
141  ?
161  ?                                           ?       ?
164      ?                                               ?
165  ?                                                   ?
166  ?                                                   ?
167      ?
171      ?                                           ?
179      ?
216      ?
218      ?                                                   ?
219      ?
221  ?                                               ?
227      ?                                                   ?
229      ?                                                   ?
232      ?                                                   ?
235      ?                                                   ?
236  ?
                                     
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